Live blogging Saddleback forum 7 August 16, 2008
Posted by Zack in California , trackback“The Vietnamese guard drew a cross in the dirt, and for a moment we were just two Christians worshiping together.”
OK. I guess McCain has some powerful ways of bonding with these folks too. That is a reference to the secret means of identification among early Christians under the Roman empire of drawing the symbol of a fish in the dirt (same as the one you see on the back of all those minivans).
…And then:
Warren: “Does evil exist? And if it does, should we negotiate with it, struggle with it, or defeat it?”
McCain: “Defeat it.”
Obama’s answer to the same question was meandering and unmemorable.
And just now on education. McCain, “…And find bad teachers another line of work.”
He’s just doing so good. Maybe, at least, this strong performance is coming early enough that Obama & his debate prep-ers will snap into better shape fast.
Comments»
I thought McCain’s performance was pretty pathetic. Pretty much heard nothing more than “War Hero, War hero, warmongering, warmongering.”
“Defeat it.” Wow, I’m so glad he’s the smug arbiter of all that is good and evil. Good gob at defeating 100,000 “evil” innocent civilians in Iraq. Good job at defeating some poor farmers with napalm in Vietnam.
Wow. James, you just can’t handle the fact that Obama get his butt handed to him at Saddleback. Hey, newsflash, the world is a dangerous place, I want someone who can identify evil and not be afraid of that conviction.
While I thought that McCain did come across very personable and comfortable in the conversation, I really thought that Barack’s answer to the evil question showed much more of his biblical worldview. Remember that Obama said we need to “confront” evil but “defeating” evil was ultimately God’s mission, not ours. He also showed spiritual insight by mentioning the ways in which evil is something that can get a hold of “us” while we’re trying to defeat evil. I was so much more impressed by his nuance and thoughtfulness about the ways in which God is ultimately in control of the world and about the ways in which evil is not “them” but something we all are tangled up in.
I just think Obama’s good sentiments were lost in delivery. You need to hang those nuances on sharp hooks.
He could have said, “We confront evil. God defeats it.” Or something. But he has to be clear. That’s just what you have to do as a politician — or as a preacher, or anyone who communicates for a living.
“Hey, newsflash, the world is a dangerous place, I want someone who can identify evil and not be afraid of that conviction.”
Newsflash Christians; warmongering and discrimination are not family values. To a New Testament Christian, “war hero” is an oxymoron. “Christian soldier” is an oxymoron. “Just war” is an oxymoron.
As a friend said: What I heard was Obama having a discussion on how he approaches an issue, examines both sides and reaches a decision and not always the easy one. McCain on the other hand seemed flippant. He was talking to a church, but came out like he was on a talkshow, cracking jokes and giving a stump speech. Last night I saw Obama working middle of the road voters, and McCain was far right, shoring up his base. That McCain is still trying to keep his base from staying home isn’t a good sign for him, and I don’t see what new voters he pulled in.
One of the most disappointing things about some of McCain’s answers was his utter lack of compassion. We’ve all heard the myth of “compassionate conservative” and McCain re-enforced that with his cold answers on marriage and abortion. On each, Obama made it a point to show compassion and understanding, mentioning same-sex partners’ hospital visitation rights, and on abortion mentions the struggles of mothers.
“He could have said, “We confront evil. God defeats it.” Or something.” I agree, Zack, but personally I would have responded more along the lines this, and obviously I would never get elected to anything:
“Evil does exists, but it is dangerous for us to be sole arbiters of what is evil and what isn’t. Much harm has been done in the world in the name of ‘fighting evil.’ One has to look no further than our own shameful actions in Iraq and Vietnam. When we look to the Bible, though, we can see how we can stand up to evil in this world. “He defends the cause of the fatherless and the widow, and loves the alien, giving him food and clothing.” “Blessed are the peacemakers, love your enemy and turn the other cheek, and treat others as you would have them do to you.” Evil cannot defeat evil, therefore there is no such thing as a “just war.” There is no such thing as “redemptive violence.” Genuine love and compassion, however, can overcome any obstacle. There are no evil people, only evil deeds. No human life is beyond redemption. Let us display a love and forgiveness more powerful that, though God, can overcome any evil.
Except the cross in the dirt story is pure McCain bullshit. It is actually Alexander Solzhenitsyn’s story from a Russian Gulag.
Ah, how could I forget this answer to what to do about evil?
“There are three general responses to evil: (1) violent opposition, (2) passivity, and (3) the third way of militant nonviolence articulated by Jesus. Human evolution has conditioned us for only the first two of these responses: fight or flight.”
Good reading on Christian pacifism and the “third way:” http://www.zmag.org/znet/viewArticle/7227